Talk:Dayr al-Qassi

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Population of Dayr al-Qassi, al-Mansura, and Fassuta

In the article now: "The first part of the village name, Dayr ("monastery") suggest that the village might have had a monastery and a Christian population. However, in modern times the population was Muslim."[Khalidi] "According to a 1945 census the village had a population of 2,300 and was a part of larger town also containing the two villages of Fassuta (existent) and al-Mansura. The town was mostly Muslim but had a large Palestinian Christian minority."[no ref]. Here is what I can see in the sources:

1596 (Hutteroth): Dayr al-Qassi 24 Muslim families (p177); al-Mansura 17 Muslim families + 5 bachelors (p178); Fassuta 12 Muslim families + 3 bachelors (p194)
1922 (census): Dair Wal Qasi (Safad sub-district, Tab XI) 663 Muslims; Fassuta (Acre sub-district, Tab XI) 15 Muslims + 444 Christians
1931 (census): Fassuta+Mansura (Acre sub-district, p100) 81 Muslims + 607 Christians; Deir el Qasi (Safad sub-district, p106) 865 Muslims
1945 survey (Hadawi version, Acre sub-district, p40): Fassuta+Deir el Qasi+El Mansura 2300 Arabs
1945 survey (unispal version, Acre sub-district, p2): "Fassuta &" 1050 Muslims; Deir el Casi 370 Muslims + 880 Christians. (These two are grouped with "&" but separate counts are given and Mansura is not mentioned.)

From this it is clear that Fassuta is where the Christians were and the other two were Muslim. The strange format of the unispal table, with two villages connected by "&" even though there are separate totals, can be explained as that the compiler of the table didn't know which of the two totals was for which village. And clearly the totals are the wrong way around. Zero^talk 13:48, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User:Zero0000 Hmm, just realised that I have put wrong data/links into the Fassuta and Dayr al-Qassi articles. I just "read" the number 1,050 for Fassuta in the UN-data here, page 2, as the first column saying Christian, as it is well-known that Fassuta is Christian. Alas, the data actually says that Fassuta is a wholly Muslim place(!) Same for Dayr al-Qassi, where the UN data gives a Muslim minority, not majority. I wonder, can we use the UN-data at all? Should we link to it? Frankly, Hadawi seems more reliable at this stage; he just groups the population as "Arab".

It seems unfair now to say that Hadawi just grouped the population into "Arabs" for political reasons, as it seems clear that the UN data at least, is not reliable when it comes to religion.

It seems to me that Khalidi did the same for the 1596-data in his 1992 book. Those data are infamous for showing no Christians (especially the liwa Safad-data) ...even when we know there were Christian before and later. Khalidi (prudently, it seems,) does not mention the religion. Perhaps we should do the same?

And I have no idea as to where the Pal.rem site get their data for 1931 Dayr al-Qassi: 917 people. That does not fit with Mills. Huldra (talk) 23:34, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 August 2018

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Palestinian Ambassador to Canada, Nabil Marouf, was born in Dayr Al-Qassi^[1] 192.150.5.2 (talk) 17:31, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, done, (thanks for the info!) Huldra (talk) 20:31, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Palestinian General Delegation in Canada. "Palestinian General Delegation in Canada". Palestinian General Delegation in Canada. Retrieved 15 August 2018.

Godfrey de Tour

Hi ! There is a mention of the sale of the village by Geoffrey de Tour (with a link to the chamberlain with this name) in 1183. This does not make sense, as this person was as far as we know active around 1240). I cannot correct myself as the text is protected. Thanks, --Cgolds (talk) 07:12, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Cgolds: Thanks! It is a misreading of the source. I'll see if I can fix it. Zero^talk 08:01, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you ! The source says Gaufrido Torto, which is translated in several sources by Godfrey Le Tor. There is a mention of a sale by this "name" in the 1160s (!), then the sale mentioned here in 1183. It is (almost) technically possible, of course, that it is the same as the chamberlain, but … ?. For the moment, I have not be able to discover more. All the best--Cgolds (talk) 10:47, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Cgolds: I suspect we are dealing with two people or even more. The article of Frankel (p260) mentions land "held by Godfrey le Tor and his father before him". An 1169 document by Godfrey le Tor is mentioned in many sources. Perhaps our problem is just that we are wikilinking the name incorrectly. Zero^talk 18:26, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Zero0000: Yes, I think that you are right. At least, it is a good assumption : keep the name (Godfrey le Tor seems the safest, by the way) and certainly de-wikilink. Thank you in advance, --Cgolds (talk) 19:15, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1945 Data

Re-hi ! Checking the 1945 source for the section on Mandatory Palestine, [1], I read it as saying that there were 880 Christians and 370 Muslims, not the opposite. I am aware of the discussion above (2014), but not convinced that the situation in 1931 implies such a variation in 1945. It is perhaps not clear if these data are for Dayr al-Qassi (as the village is grouped with two others), but in any case I do not see the data as given in the article. Best, --Cgolds (talk) 21:40, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Palestinian General Delegation in Canada. "Palestinian General Delegation in Canada". Palestinian General Delegation in Canada. Retrieved 15 August 2018.

[1]